Last week, a school teacher posted the following comments to one of the blogs on our JacksonHeraldTODAY.com website:
“For everyone else who cares about the future of education, cutting teaching positions is a huge problem. There’s not a perfect solution to the budget issue, but making lots of small changes, like trimming administrative salaries or cutting unnecessary positions at the county level, would add up faster than you think. What about cutting costs by conserving energy in school buildings?
“Teachers work too hard to put up with this much disrespect from their communities. As a 3rd grade teacer, if you broke down how much I make per hour for all of the real hours of work I put in BEYOND the 7 hours of actual teaching each day (tutoring students, doing research, writing lessons, grading papers, creating exams, etc.), you’d see that I make about as much as the lawn care service workers that trim your hedges. The only thing is, you don’t need a college degree to use a weed whacker.
“Bottom line: Don’t think for a minute teachers are overpaid or that we deserve to have our jobs cut.”
To which I offer this observation:
Whoa there, you’re going to break your arm patting yourself on the back so hard.
Before you go get into your car and drive by Mr. Weed Whacker without so much as a nod, you may want to consider this thought: This guy you look down upon for doing manual labor is working to pay YOUR salary.
He may not have your degrees, but that does not lessen his value as a citizen of the community or as a worker. Honest work is honest work.
Furthermore, I doubt that he wants to hear about your burden of grading papers and doing lesson plans. Will you think of him when you’re at the beach with your family during spring break next month? Or how about in the summer when you’re home and he’s sweating outside in the sun doing some dirty, grimy job; or how about those two weeks at Christmas when you’re out shopping with friends and Mr. Weed Whacker is standing in a cold rain digging a ditch. Do you really think he gives a rat’s rear about your paperwork?
And unlike you, he doesn’t have 100 percent job security. He may or may not have a job tomorrow. His boss may not call him; the lawn care firm he works for may not be in business next week. He is subject to the whims of the economy, something many government employees don’t seem to appreciate.
And when Mr. Weed Whacker does work, forces far beyond his control take away a big part of his earnings. The government gives those dollars to you in your paycheck.
The government uses his dollars to help build the nice air-conditioned and heated building you work in.
The government uses his dollars to help pay for your retirement.
The government uses his dollars to keep you employed even when he and his friends struggle to keep a job — any job — in an economy torn asunder.
And to compare your salary to his is absurd — obscene, really. The average public school teacher in Georgia makes around $55,000 per year; Mr. Weed Whacker probably doesn’t make half of that in a good year. Yet unlike you, he is not the one complaining on websites and blogging for pity.
You speak of “disrespect,” but who is really disrespecting whom?
So the next time you see a guy working a weed whacker, wipe that smug smile off your face, get out of your insulated little bubble for a moment, walk over and shake his sweaty hand and say, “thank you.”
While you’re at it, also say “thank you” to the woman who bags your groceries at the store; and the bank teller who takes your deposits; and the waitress at your favorite restaurant; and the hairdresser who cuts your hair; and the hard-working immigrant who does your pedicure.
These people, and thousands more like them in businesses all around the state, make your job with all its security and benefits possible.
And know this, too: It’s because of public sector employees like you — self-absorbed and unappreciative — that taxpayers all across the country are fed up with government.
Mike Buffington is editor of The Jackson Herald. He can be reached at mike@mainstreetnews.com.
THANK YOU to every teacher who supported me when I was in school! THANK YOU to my parents for holding me accountable! THANK YOU to the parents who email me checking on their kids, come in for conferences, and hound me to find out what THEY can do to help!!!
Oh yeah- job security. I'm not sure if you've heard, but teachers don't even have secure jobs right now. That's what the budget cuts mean. SO, there will be a greater student to teacher ratio (they're removing the cap on classroom numbers AND taking away teaching jobs), less classroom resources, and more pressure on teachers. Burning educators in effigy for working 50 hour weeks devoting their time to YOUR children sounds like a FABULOUS idea!
She ran her school and yes there was disipline. We learned something or else.
Teachers are not the only folks who get paid through our government. There is far more waste in the military budget, in non-competitive awards to lobbyist cronies, and the several billions of dollars in cash that just disappeared in Iraq, for example. Buffington tilts at tiny windmills while ignoring the hurricanes.
Just as the weed whacker, the manicurist, the grocery bagger, the bank tellers, the waitress/waiter, the clerks at the mall and all others that have a job, teachers work for their pay, it just happens to be paid by the tax payers.
Why not attack the dead beats that are popping out babies faster than they can turn around? We are paying them every month to continue their dead end life styles. We're giving them their money to buy drugs and corrupt our children...Why are you attacking the ones that are trying to give our children a future when there are so many of those who don't give a "rat's rear" that our tax money has paid for that brand new car they're driving to deal their drugs? In fact, those are the ones laughing at us working tax payers because they've figured out how to manipulate the system to obtain a steady check. They are the ones with the real job security. As long as we all continue working, continue paying our taxes, (teachers included) they get a paycheck!!! Get a grip Mike. Complain about the ones that never lift a finger yet are able to obtain free health care and a monthly paycheck while the rest of us have co-pays and actually EARN a paycheck.
By the way, I am a taxpayer, not a school teacher.
While teachers do work hard, it's no harder than that of
someone like a plumber, contractor, custodians, etc. and
believe it or not, some of those I mentioned above have
college degrees just like teachers. Would a teacher dig a
ditch for $12-$15 an hour. I don't think so! Just because
you are a teacher doesn't mean you are better or in a higher
class than the rest of us. You put your pants on just like
the rest of us, one leg at a time. I have seen teachers
look down their nose at the average person. I have seen
them not give some "lower class" employees of the school
system the time of day. And, when did becoming a teacher
start being about the salary you were going to make? I
understand you have to make a living, so do the rest of us.
I thought becoming a teacher was about educating our children
and making a difference in a child's life.
Pay cuts are coming. So, here's a tip: Put on your big
girl britches and deal with it just like the rest of us
have to.
2. I would like to see how much money local government (municipal, county, school) pays The Herald for its services. Has your business, Mr. Buffington, offered to help the struggling government by lowering printing costs? Or are you continuing to raise rates in order to make your business more profitable at the government's expense?
I have no problem examining government waste; it needs to be examined. But don't forget that if you are willing to hold others accountable, you must be willing to do so with yourself.
2. Private businesses are not accountable to government, it's the other way around. Government taxes and fees have skyrocketed and it is those of us in business who pay for that.
The other difference is that private employees have to perform to remain employed. Ranking in the bottom 20% in the country would not cut it in private enterprise.
1) Regardless of what you think of Mike, this whole debate would end if schools were privatized. Teachers would not have to worry about having their salaries published, and taxes wouldn't be used to pay for education. Is that what everyone wants? Count me in. My children attend a private school. I'm not rich. We drive old cars, live in a smaller house than most, and don't eat out much. Those of you who complain about your child's public school teachers should consider that. If you didn't like the way you were treated at Wal-mart, you would try shopping at Target.
2) Mike, you are either very brave, very shrewd, or very foolish. You've done a public service by reminding all of us how much is spent on education and asking if we are getting our money's worth. No doubt, you're selling a few more papers and getting a few more hits on the web site as a result. I do worry about the long term effects of your crusade. I respect you and your paper, and want both of you around for a long time (even though I disagree with you quite often). Please be careful; you're building up an awful big storehouse of ill will towards yourself.
3) For all teachers who are complaining: if you want to be treated as a professional, act like a professional. Proofread your public comments for grammatical and spelling errors. Use logic. Ask yourself if your students get "their money's worth" every day, in every class. If you're working your tail off and giving it your best, at least acknowledge the teacher on your hallway who's a deadbeat. (If you don't think there's at least one deadbeat on your hallway, it's probably you.)
I would add to your many excellent points that teacher pay goes up every year, regardless of performance, as their pay is based on seniority and the number of degrees they have collected. Never mind that the number of degrees has little if any correlation to job performance and that teaching experience, beyond the 3rd year, adds nothing to student outcomes.
The weed whacker on the other hand doesn't get extra pay for experience or credentials. He gets paid what he's worth in a competitive market, and if he wants a raise he has to earn it.
Did the BJC employees "deserve to have their jobs cut?"
As I recall this whole track started with Rep. Tommy Benton's comments on the state budget cuts related to funding nurses in the school. He stated that he had received hundreds of emails protesting the cut but had not received any recommendations/suggestions on what could be cut instead. It's a good question.
As a grandmother of a sixth grader with Type I diabetes - meaning blood sugar monitoring several times a day and prompt reaction to low blood sugars - I was very concerned about not having a nurse available in the school. If a nurse is not available, then that responsibility falls onto the teachers who already have enough to do and are not, in some cases, equipped to handle those issues.
I also know that many schools "share" a nurse (as is the case of the school system my grandson is in) and some school districts do not even have one on staff. I don't know how much the state funding is, but my first thought is that's hardly a drop in the bucket in the total picture of education funding, right??
The real question still is where and what do we cut when there is no money available?
Raising taxes is not an option.
The largest expense in the budget is salaries and it's not a matter of who is or who is not deserving of a job, but where can costs be trimmed?
It's a difficult issue as it's personal and impacts lives but yet needs to be dealt with. And I for one would not want it to be the school nurses. And there are just as many good reasons for it not be the band director, the art teacher, the electric vehicle courses, the coaches, the janitorial staff, the bus drivers and on and on.
Mr. Benton I don't know the answer to your question. It would be good to see some dialogue about that from the members of the education system.
1. There are many government workers who work very had, try not to waste resources are not paid at a level equal to what their services are worth (look at the lower level public safety workers, not the administration). Those employees pay a portion of their salary through the taxes that they too pay, and they pay their salary with their labor.
2. Private business is accountable to the taxpayers if private business takes money from the government (the taxpayers). Maybe private business is not completely accountable, but it is accountable for those public funds.
With the economy the way it is, I don't know too many government workers that would be adamantly opposed to a one-day per month furlough in lieu of job loses. I am sure that would save hundreds of thousands of dollars. And don't forget the many agencies that have already trimmed their staff by eliminating vacated positions rather than re-hiring. Perhaps this is a healthy fat-trimming cycle.
For those who care, google John Taylor Gatto, who describes what public school is designed to do. He is a former teacher of the year in NY City.
I like his quote: #
"The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought?"
I would be the teacher responsible for writing the comment quoted in the column above. My intention in writing this comment (which it wasn’t quoted in its entirety) was to defend myself and fellow educators to other bloggers who were taking cheap shots at our profession. I’m flattered that Mr. Buffington chose to write an entire column in response to my words, but it seems he completely misunderstood what I was trying to say. We’re told that when we earn higher degrees, we also earn better compensation. Even though this is true in the world of teaching, there’s still a disparity between what we are paid and what private sector employees are paid for the same educational experience. It’s true—our salaries are sometimes comparable with those who do not have degrees. I’m sure Mr. Buffington would not have written the same column had I used the clichéd metaphor “glorified babysitter” in my apparent dismay over what I’m paid. Wait—I should check to see if babysitters pay taxes before I step on any toes.
While we’re here, let’s go ahead and debunk some educator myths.
MYTH #1: Teachers don’t respect the tax payers who pay their salaries.
TRUTH: We are grateful for those who pay their taxes. What citizen wouldn’t be? Yet, aren’t there people in our community who put an unbearable strain on our pocketbooks? What about those who choose not to work and let tax payers buy their groceries and pay their medical bills? And by the way, teachers are tax payers, too.
MYTH #2: Teachers have 100% job security.
TRUTH: Maybe Mr. Buffington doesn’t watch the nightly news, but numerous counties around our great state are cutting teaching positions. There will be teachers without jobs next year.
MYTH #3: Teachers have a glorious life of family vacations, shopping sprees with their friends, and long, relaxing breaks.
TRUTH: Much like other educators, I have lived paycheck to paycheck in my career, so Mr. Buffington is more than jumping to conclusions on this one. Would driving 3 hours out of town to the in-laws’ on a Saturday count as family vacation? Many of us teachers don’t have the money (or the time) to go on shopping sprees. Lots of us had to skip buying loved ones holiday presents, even though we still have to find a way to buy things for our classroom, as tax payers’ money doesn’t fund such expenses. And long, relaxing breaks? Laughable! Many teachers use their “free time” to work at second jobs, attend classes, or do research on classroom issues they want to enhance.
MYTH #4 (and this one’s a little more personal): I am a self-absorbed and unappreciative public sector employee.
TRUTH: Name a teacher who can be described by these qualifiers, and you have found a teacher whose heart isn’t in his or her job. Teachers are self-sacrificing individuals who put the needs of their students before their own every day. Believe or not, but there are students who receive more care and attention from their teachers than they do from their own parents.
It was quite a leap for Mr. Buffington to assume that I, or other teachers, don’t show gratitude to those who provide services. I do take the time to thank the grocery baggers, the bank tellers, the hair stylists, and the restaurant servers. I used to be a waitress myself for 4 years. Everyone needs to feel that their work is worth something to somebody else.
So maybe I’m not willing to dig a ditch in the cold rain, but I would venture a guess that the guy with the weed whacker probably wouldn’t be interested in teaching twenty-plus children on twenty-plus learning levels while trying to meet all of their emotional and personal needs. Teaching is a tough job, and I have the skill set to do it. Lawn care work is also difficult, and I respect those who have the skills do that job. For every need in our economy, there’s someone skilled enough to meet the need. Even my 3rd graders understand what interdependence means.
Finally, I would like to attribute my appreciative nature and ability to publish this post to nurturing parents and nurturing teachers.
Many teachers require special financing for cars and houses because of their low pay. Is that right for a professional who had to test out and pass drug and background checks just to get a certification? Teachers lack the appreciation and respect they should get. I've actually had a students tell me to my face that I can't do anything about his bad behavior!
Give us a break. We are teachers at heart and dedicated to our profession. It is only for this reason we remain in this industry! Parents should be bowing down to our feet.
Without considering our local teachers, let's take a look at the national picture. Spending on education doubled under George Bush but just like everytime before when money is poured into education we don't seem to be getting our money's worth. I would make an exception with JHS as my son gets a great education there. I don't have any idea about Jackson County. So, if money doesn't make education better what are some possible answers?
1. Vouchers where parents can decide where the education dollars are spent for their children. This would create instant competition and would weed out every ineffective teacher and salaries would truly be market-based rather than government based as they are now.
2. ? I think everything else has been tried and as failed on a national level.
When will we get our money's worth? Why is it that some school districts are better than others? Answering the latter will be the answer to better education across the board. Money doesn't work. What does work is what we should be asking ourselves.
Also, with regard to the average teacher salary in Georgia, you must remember that to be a teacher in this state there is a baseline qualification of obtaining the appropriate degree at a four-year college or University. Teachers must pay for this educational requirement to even be considered for the job. Mr. Weedwacker does not have to dole out tens of thousands of dollars before he can be considered for employment.
If the public does not want to pay the teachers so much to teach then they have representatives that can vote to drastically decrease teacher pay. However, why would someone spend so much to put themselves through school to make less than Mr. Weedwacker? Further, can you see the public voting for decreasing the requirements of having a college-educated teacher to teach their children? This would have to happen to attract any teacher once pay is reduced.
You cannot have it both ways. If you require teachers to be educated and certified, etcetera then you will have to pay something higher than a McDonald's fry-cook wage. Otherwise you have created no incentive to find anyone qualified to educate the community.
I agree private schools are generally good but in a realistic society there is no hope of enabling every child to go private unless you raise taxes nationally for vouchers. Then, guess what, you will still be screaming about taxpayer-funded voucher education being used to fund underperforming education in private schools.
What are these "representatives" you speak of? Are they similar to the people who were urged by 90% of voters to not bailout the banks but did what they saw fit anyway.
And if your intention was to defend teachers against "cheap shots", I'd just love it if you would elaborate on the "cheap shot" you think I took? There's nothing "cheap" about my expecting teachers who have spent SO much time telling me about all the college degrees they've earned, to be able to spell and use proper grammar. You've even messed up again in your latest blog. Can you not proof read and spell check? Is this indicative of your performance in school? Everybody does make mistakes, but if you're making them constantly, then I don't believe you should be on a soap box about what a hard job you have, because apparently you're not putting all that much effort into it to begin with. It should MATTER to you that you're making mistakes.
I just think you would do better for your peers to stop talking, because you are not helping their cause. The only "cheap shot" I saw in those blogs was you assuming first of all that I have "gardeners" to do my yard work, (I don't), and your "holier-than-thou" comment about weed whacking not requiring a college education. How about you and the lawn care worker compete in a spelling bee? Wonder who would win....
You actually have a few mistakes in your own post. Since you are persecuting others for making errors in their posts, I thought you should know.
living in Jefferson, but like teaching in Gwinnett a whole
lot better where I'm appreciated.
I'm not sure how many educators are in Jefferson and
Jackson, but I do know if all teachers vowed to not buy
this 50 cent paper it will eventually make a dent in Buffington's
salary. Anyone aboard?
All sarcasm aside, do any of you have any idea of what it is like the modern classroom? I seriously doubt any plumber, electrician, or other service professional would put up with the disrespect of today's high school student or the abuse often directed at teachers by parents.
I do not feel above any other worker, blue collar or white collar. However, they all expect me to pay for their services at a rate they determine. Is it too much for me to ask to make at least a fraction of what I could make if I was working in the private sector? Just for fun, figure out how much a teacher would be paid as a babysitter. You will then realize the bargain teachers are...
Why am I in Teaching?
- The average pay for a Georgia educator (K-12) is $56,000 per year.
- The average pay for a non-teaching Georgian with a college degree is $44,000 per year.
- Georgia educators work 190 days per year.
- The average Georgian with a college degree (outside of education) works roughly 230 days a year. This assumes they get the six major holidays and three weeks paid vacation.
- Georgia educators pay per working day is $295.
- Non-teaching Georgians with a college degree average pay per working day is $190.
Make your own conclusions.
Teachers only get paid for 190 days but many work far more days than that. Not to mention the class they are required to attend in order to maintain their certification. Many teachers are in their room before 7am and are still there past 5pm. Those who coach, tutor, or sponsor other activities are at the school much later than that. Did you figure any of this into your apples-to-apples comparison. Also teachers are required to buy a lot of their own teaching materials because there is no room in the budget for items that may enhance the students desire to learn.
Also, the average educator pay includes the superintendant pay, which make way more than the average teacher. A teacher with a Masters degree may make about $35k per year. I know that the average non-public position starting salary for a Masters degree is far more than $35k per year. I made more than that in the private sector without any type of degree!
Try to get your facts straight! Teachers are under appreciated, self sacrificing people who deserve our respect. Not some RIDICULOUS article in a two-bit newspaper!
We all have a right to know where our tax money goes and the fact is you can't talk about government spending without talking about public jobs because payroll is BY FAR the largest area that government spends tax money.
And you can't have any serious conversation about government spending without talking about education because education comprises about 75% of the local and state budget.
The question isn't whether public employees make too much, not enough or whether they work too hard or not enough. The question is can we afford to maintain our current public expenditures, our public payroll in particular.
All the emotional comments about how much a teacher cares about children or loves their job or how many advanced degrees the county manager has pales in comparison to this broader implication: If we don't make the right, hard decisions across the public sector now, how will our children and our grandchildren fare in a possible depression where they can't get a job regardless of how educated they are. They will be Americans saddled with unfathomable debt and a soup line standard of living that only our great grandparents remember. Gardening won't be a hobby, it could mean survival. This is a real possibility - it can happen in this day and age and it can happen in this nation.
Think beyond your own personal current situations and tender egos, people and look at the bigger picture for the future. Anybody with a shred of common sense can see this is the point the paper is trying to make.
I didn't get the idea that the teacher was saying they were any better than a guy with a weed whacker.and how dare you publicly attack one of our hard working teachers. Teachers all over have to work many more hours than what they are paid..I wouldn't want to be a teacher and put up with the crap that these teachers put up with.godbless each and everyone of them.
1. Nationally, only 40% of money allocated for education goes to paying teacher salaries.
2. Teacher salaries are front-loaded, meaning teachers will start out making more money that other professions requiring a college degree. However, those non-teaching professionals will make far more money than teachers during their working lifetime.
3. A typical day for a teacher is nothing like that of other professionals. An entire day for a teacher is dictated by a bell schedule. Teachers are told when they can have lunch (Often 15 to 20 minutes), when they can go to the bathroom, etc. Planning periods are usually filled with meetings and training, leaving personal time in the evening for grading papers.
Non-teaching professionals usually can go to lunch when they want and for up to an hour. They often can decide how to spend working hours and when to take breaks. For many, the workday ends at 5:00pm and nothing from work is taken home. Most non-teaching professionals do not have to call for substitutes when they are absent.
4. Many teachers either sponsor extra-curricular activities or coach sports, sometimes even as a condition of their employment. This usually entails hundreds of additional hours at work either late into the weekday evening or on Saturdays.
Overall, I would argue that teachers work the same if not more hours than many other professionals with college degrees. Those professions that require more hours than teachers usually pay far more money.
It is also a myth that teachers inherently have it more difficult than other jobs. Many jobs have restrictions and require work at night and on weekends. Every job has its ups and downs; no job is ever perfect. The vast amount of time off teachers get each year is a major offset to any additional time they work during the school year; and the job security teachers have is not matched anywhere in the private sector, or for that matter, in most other public sector jobs.
Regardless, teachers know what the pay is when they go into the job and they know the hours involved. So why all the complaining? Nobody is making any teacher stay in their job. If the private sector world is so much better and easier and pays so much more, then jump ship and join the rest of us.
"1. Nationally, only 40% of money allocated for education goes to paying teacher salaries."
This is one of the problems in our education system - it's top-heavy. My solution is to cut education spending by 50% then mandate 90% of money allocated for education actually goes to paying in-the-classroom teacher salaries. And those salaries should be merit-based. The difference in teaching ability among the teachers on my hall alone is vast. All educators are not created equal.
"2. Teacher salaries are front-loaded, meaning teachers will start out making more money that other professions requiring a college degree. However, those non-teaching professionals will make far more money than teachers during their working lifetime."
Perhaps.... IF these non-teaching professional have a job. In the real world, the economy and marketplace dictates who works and for how much. In the public sector, and particularly in education, job security and built-in increases are almost a given. A guaranteed job making $55,000 beats a maybe job garnering $100,000 every time.
"3. A typical day for a teacher is nothing like that of other professionals...."
So? A typical day for doctors or soldiers is probably nothing like that of other professionals either. Doesn't mean it's worse or better - just different with both good and bad things. But other professions have similar constraints. Doctors, for instance, often miss lunch altogether if they have an overload of patients - their bell schedule is a line of sick people demanding attention immediately. Engineers spend many evenings snuggled up with their CAD programs doing work that didn't get finished. Nurses are constantly going to in-service and certificate update training sessions on their own dime. Sales professionals always work well into the evenings and weekends on proposals to get a pay check. Even weed-whacker operators have to do maintenance on their equipment after hours and for no extra pay.
"4. Many teachers either sponsor extra-curricular activities or coach sports, sometimes even as a condition of their employment. This usually entails hundreds of additional hours at work either late into the weekday evening or on Saturdays."
Those teachers coaching sports are usually compensated for it. Most other professionals do volunteer work, often as a condition of employment, and are not reimbursed. As a former employee at a local business, I was asked to spend hundreds of hours off the clock doing volunteer work too. Think about the number of professionals who donate their time through civic clubs, Boys & Girls Clubs, veterans' groups, scouting, Relay for Life, adult literacy councils, teen pregnancy centers, March of Dimes, mentoring programs and yes, volunteering at their local schools.
Bottom line is that we don't have it easy - teaching is hard work. But so is any other job done well.
None of that is to disrespect teaching as a profession, but the reality is that education jobs have traditionally enjoyed virtually 100% job security. This recession is changing that and it's difficult for the education establishment to adjust because they've never had to make these kinds of cutbacks before.
Mike
point she was trying to make. She was simply stating that
the teachers in this country work hard and don't get
compensated for it. Much like law enforcement and other
public safety officials. You wouldn't have the education
or lifestyle you haver today if it wasn't for a school
teacher. How pathetic that you have to twist words in
order to sell a paper or to make yourself seem as though
your taking up for the "little people". When is the last
time your got paid to do manual labor? Probably never!
If the "yard man" doesn't like his "status" in life then
change it and get a college education...much like a school
teacher. The guy with the weed whacker isn't complainging
because his job probably isn't getting cut. Buffington get
off your high horse and crawl back under the rock you came
from please. Do us all a favor. I only read the online
version of your newspaper because it isn't worth 50 cents.
OK, I'll bite: Since when did teachers begin working for free?
compensated enough much like public safety officials.
Is that the only thing you had to comment on?
teacher.
Looks like it's the teachers who aren't happy with their status, maybe they should go back to college and get another job where they can name their own pay - maybe in a bigger town. We're not all pathetic, just apathetic to what our children have been through with all these 'so called marters' who apparently work for beans, maybe they can deduct it from their tax as voluntary work.